Agenda item

National Investigation Service - NATIS

Minutes:

The Assistant Director of NATIS introduced the report.

 

Members queried the £500,000 debt owed by Southend-On-Sea Council at point 13 on Appendix 2. The Executive Director of Corporate Services and Monitoring Officer stated that this was for work undertaken but not paid for and is subject to ongoing negotiation with Southend-On-Sea Council.

 

Members queried what is being done to ensure this does not happen again. The Executive Director of Corporate Services and Monitoring Officer confirmed that they now have effective governance in place and very competent officers. The Council has a massive opportunity with NATIS to spread their expertise across the country and generate income. If work is completed for other councils, we need to ensure we generate the income back for this and that is basic financial management. It looks like that was lacking in the past and we are looking to rectify that now. A lot of counter fraud work is not being undertaken in other local authorities because this is a specialist service and expensive to obtain externally.

 

The Co-opted member Charles Clarke queried if NATIS sits separate from Internal Audit. The Executive Director of Corporate Services and Monitoring Officer confirmed that it is separate from Internal Audit. The Council has its own Counter Fraud Team that undertakes the counter fraud work for Thurrock. NATIS primarily is completing work under a contract with the Department for Business and Trade. There does need to be closer working between the Counter Fraud Team and NATIS. NATIS has unrivalled skills and equipment outside of the police. It has operated as a traded service and wasn’t providing services for Thurrock, it has previously been acting in a bubble within the Council. NATIS employees are Council employees. NATIS needs to be integrated more into the council partly as perception but also for the benefits it can provide. There are Information Governance and Data Protection experts within NATIS, as Council employees it would be useful for them to be working within teams of the Thurrock Council on issues such as information security.

 

Members queried when NATIS can start working more with the Council.

The Executive Director of Corporate Services and Monitoring Officer confirmed that they are in their final year of the contract with Central Government. Negotiations are going well and it is hoped Central Government will allow NATIS to work with the Council and reap benefits for the public sector community. NATIS can undertake work that the police find difficult to prioritise due to finite resources.

 

The Co-opted Member Jasdip Singh asked whether the Committee will receive future reports regarding the money recovered back to Thurrock.

The Assistant Director of NATIS confirmed their target for this year is £7 million and £2 million has been received in the first quarter of this year. Under the Asset Recovery Incentivisation Scheme NATIS will receive a percentage of the money recovered. NATIS targets are currently set by Central Government, NATIS need to be given latitude outside of the Central Government contract. The priority after Central Government will be helping Thurrock Council.

 

Members queried when the Assistant Director of NATIS started in this role. The Assistant Director of NATIS confirmed that he started in 2021 as a Consultant and was previously a Police officer dealing with serious organised crime and counter terrorism. In September last year he took over as Assistant Director at NATIS. The current contract with Central Government ends in March 2025 but they are working on extending the contract. It will take time to get some of the current cases through the judicial system.

 

The Assistant Director of NATIS explained that the Digital Forensic Team examine digital devices such as mobile phones and laptops which are seized and can take the data off those devices to be used as evidence to prove an offence. NATIS also has a Financial Investigations Team made up of Financial Investigators accredited by the National Crime Agency. They operate under the Proceeds of Crime Act and can apply to court to obtain financial information about those being investigated. The mothership of NATIS is based at Thurrock Council but they have staff situated across the whole of the UK.

 

Members queried the relationship between NATIS and Thurrock Councils Counter Fraud team. The Executive Director of Corporate Services and Monitoring Officer responded that the Counter Fraud team undertake work for the council and are largely focused on housing fraud. There is some cross working but it would be good if this could be extended as NATIS could be extremely helpful for example to trading standards work through digital forensics. Due to the contract in place with Central Government, separation has been maintained but going forward best value will be achieved by closer working.

 

Members queried when NATIS update reports will be provided to the Committee. The Assistant Director of NATIS confirmed that they do produce performance reports and officers will look at how they can feed that into the Council. The full Mazars report will also be coming back to Committee, it is currently with the Department for Business and Trade.

 

RESOLVED:

         

1.1          The Audit Committed noted the progress made against the recommendations of Mazars in March 2024.

 

 

Supporting documents: